http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4z_4Sgxy9M&feature=channel_page

9:33

Kristin HANSON 1

Kristin HANSON, says her daughter at age 8 complained to a head shrinker Ms. Hanson took her to that her Dad, Jerry had "abused" her. Kristin had been the unfettered custodial parent with dad, Atty. Jerry Morgan, being a non-Custodial Dad. Kristin then found herself in a royal battle, spending over $200,000 on atty.s she borrowed from her Mom, $80,000 on 1 attorney, just trying to get to a JURY TRIAL, and after all that money and time of 6 years WITHOUT her daughter. Custody was reversed without CPS doing a real investigation, she says. Now her daughter 14 years old is becoming desperate and despondent. All CALLs are monitor, because MOM ran away with her when she was 8, because her daughter, she says did NOT want to go to Dads house. Now 6 years later and more than 1/4 million dollars later, she has ZERO custody, and only monitored taped phone contact.

If the original allegation of abuse was false, both she and her daughter have paid dearly, and grandmother too. If it was true, it proves the CPS is incapable or recognizing TRUE abuse, and doing the correct thing. INVESTIGATE and give a Jury trial. For lack of a Jury trial much suffering and waited money has occurred. If Atty. Jerry Morgan used his inside knowledge of the Court system and his BAR brotherhood with Kristin's atty. to avoid a jury TRIAL on the merits, then a crime has been committed, but what atty. would take on such a case to bring justice? None. that is the problem today. Its all about $$, not the best interests of the child.

9:59

Kristin HANSON # 2

The LIVE TV show with Kristin HANSON about the loss of her 8 year old daughter six years ago continues. LIVE on TV with host William

WAGENER. After investigation of over 400 similar child custody cases, it seem obvious to Wagener, that the best thing, is to NOT take the child from ANY Parent until a JURY TRIAL, if already done, Mandate a Jury Trial within 10 days of taking a child. More than 20 million American Children today have been done MORE HARM from CPS actions, more have died from foster care or CPS actions than from the natural parents, be they good bad or in between. Abolish Federal Funding for VAWA, CAPTA, and similar programs. they distort justice.

BRING BACK JURY TRIALS, and have CPS workers who commit perjury do mandatory 7 year in Prison, and 7 years out working for to pay restitution to their victims.

2:09

Kristin HANSON # 3

3rd of 3 video clips on Kristin HANSON's trauma of complaining about ABUSE by bio-DAD, via a head shrinker, Ms. Hanson trusted, and CPS failed to investigate properly Ms. Hanson, and court, gave custody to the DAD, implying Kristin Hanson was alienating daughter from DAD

without foundation. Yet, the Courts and attorney's who promised a JURY trial, after milking Kristin and her mother, grandmother of Rachel of over $250,000.oo never got a JURY trial on the merits after 6 years. One wonders, if EVEN a mildly "Abusive" parent, with 50% time would not be better than have ZERO Time with the good parent and feeding the cabal of greedy attorney endless stream of hard earned and saved money.

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] A Human Rights Issue-Custodial Justice.

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Force Shared Parenting and Get More Domestic Violence Deaths: That’s a Rotten Deal!

www.Justice4mothers.com

Filed under: Activism, Best interest of the child, Child Custody, Child Custody Battle, Child Custody Issues, Child Custody Mediation, Child Custody for mothers, Child Protective Services, Child Support, Child custody for fathers, Coparenting, Custody for dads, Custody for moms, Divorce, Domestic Abuse, Domestic Relations, Domestic Violence, Familicide, Family Court Reform, Family Courts, Family Rights, Florida, Getting screwed by the politicians, Hate Crimes, Human Rights, Husbands who murder wives,Maternal Deprivation, Murder, Murder - Suicide, Murdered Mothers, Non-custodial Mothers, Noncustodial Mothers, Parental Alienation Syndrome, Shared Parenting, parental alienation — justice4mothers @ 8:55 pm

In Florida, where there is forced shared parenting now, the domestic violence homicides have increased 74% this year.  It is certain that neither the police, CPS or the courts will help.  Florida’s shared parenting bill was based on old English property laws that state that children are the property of the man per the analysis of the Shared Parenting Bill SB 2532.

Miami Dade police investigate apparent murder-suicide

Robert Samuels, The Miami Herald

MIAMI-DADE COUNTY

Police are investigating a possible murder-suicide that shook a pristine gated community in South Miami-Dade.  Fabiana Vespa, 21, and her 27-year-old boyfriend were found dead in a home in the 2800 block of Southwest 152nd Court on Sunday morning, said Miami-Dade Detective Alvaro Zabaleta. Both died of apparent gunshot wounds.

Police arrived at the house about 8 a.m. after getting a call about a domestic disturbance. Neighbor Ana Ruiz was inside her home when she heard helicopters circling the community.  “I looked outside and there was already yellow tape and fire-rescue was leaving with their lights flashing, but silently,”  Ruiz said.   “It’s so sad. They were a good family.”  Vespa’s morning responsibility was walking the dog, neighbors said.

She lived at the home with her mother and her grandmother. Her boyfriend spent a lot of time at house.  One of Vespa’s relatives was in the house during the shooting, but police would not say which one. That relative was not injured.  By 9 a.m., a crowd of neighbors gathered around the house as seven police cars surrounded the scene in the Venetian Isles community.

The incident was one of two murder-suicides in South Florida on Sunday. In Sunrise, a husband, his wife and their 13-year-old daughter were found dead about 2 a.m. Sunday.

In Miami-Dade, groups that work with domestic-abuse victims have cited a 74 percent increase in domestic-violence homicides and suicides this year.

That statistic became very real for Ruiz and her neighbors on Sunday.  “This is a very, very quiet neighborhood,” Ruiz said.   “We were surprised, and a few of us went to tell police how shocked we were.”

Note: Cross posted from [wp ridezstormz] Silent No More!.

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Verizon Public Interest Fellowship Programhttp://media-newswire.com/release_1100763.html

Created with a $90,000 grant from the Verizon Foundation, the Verizon Public Interest Fellowship Program is a collaborative effort to provide free legal services to low-income victims of domestic violence and create a cadre of knowledgeable and experienced lawyers dedicated to helping those affected by domestic abuse.

(Media-Newswire.com) - Created with a $90,000 grant from the Verizon Foundation, the Verizon Public Interest Fellowship Program is a collaborative effort to provide free legal services to low-income victims of domestic violence and create a cadre of knowledgeable and experienced lawyers dedicated to helping those affected by domestic abuse.

The program supports a Postgraduate Fellow and six Summer Fellows working in five agencies serving Newark and six New Jersey counties. Participating in the program along with Seton Hall Law School’s Center for Social Justice are:

Essex-Newark Legal Services

Partners for Women and Justice

Legal Services of New Jersey

Northeast New Jersey Legal Services

The Rachel Coalition

Manavi Inc.

WISE Women’s Center of Essex County College

For the victim of domestic violence, virtually every encounter with an attorney is a victory. They receive the safety and security that comes from knowing and pursuing their legal rights and the empowerment of moving forward as they start a new journey free from abuse. Thanks to funding provided by the Verizon Foundation, Seton Hall Law School students also have the opportunity to have a life-changing experience assisting others in need by receiving specialized training in family law with an emphasis on domestic violence representation as they work under the guidance of experienced lawyers in a paid Summer Fellowship position.

THE FACTS

According to the most recent State of New Jersey Domestic Violence Offense Report ( 2007 ), there were a total of 71,901 domestic violence cases reported in New Jersey in 2007; 26,192 of those occurred in Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Middlesex, Passaic and Union counties, the areas served by the Verizon Public Interest Fellowship Program.

Many victims of domestic violence are trapped in abusive relationships because they are financially dependent upon their abuser and lack the resources to seek independence.

Poverty leaves many women unable to obtain legal representation to gain protection from their abuser, leaving them at risk.

THE NEED

The demand for free or subsidized legal assistance to gain protection from an abuser far exceeds the availability of those services.

To attain safety and empowerment, domestic violence victims typically need legal services that fall under the rubric of family law, including restraining orders, divorce, child custody, and child and spousal support matters.

While many domestic violence victims are employed, many also lack the knowledge to effectively manage their finances.

THE MISSION

To meet the need for free legal services to assist low-income victims of domestic violence.

To provide Seton Hall Law students with training and experience in the practice of family law, with an emphasis on domestic violence representation.

To offer financial literacy and employment resources to assist with the rebuilding of lives.

To create a pipeline of pro bono attorneys and form a network of lawyers committed to a common goal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For further information, please contact Madeleine Kurtz, Associate Director of Public Interest at 973- 642-8242 / madeleine.kurtz@shu.edu.

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] A Human Rights Issue-Custodial Justice.

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“Thank you Wendy!!”

http://andjusticeforsome.blogspot.com/

AN OPEN LETTER TO WHOOPI GOLDBERG

Dear Whoopi;

Yesterday on "The View", you said Roman Polanski pleaded guilty to "unlawful sex with a minor", but that it wasn't "rape rape". So I've been wondering -

What the hell is "rape rape"?

I know you said your point was to articulate the nature of the crime to which he pleaded guilty - which, you said, was somehow DIFFERENT from "rape".

It isnt.

"Unlawful sex with a minor" IS the crime of child rape in California.

So again - I ask you - how is "rape rape" different from "rape"?

Regular folks understand "rape" to mean "sexual penetration without consent" - and of course, consent is irrelevant when the victim is a child.

The law says "rape" means: "sexual penetration".

The dictionary says "rape" is: "forced sexual intercourse".

No matter which definitional source you use, Whoopi, Polanski "raped" his victim.

So I'm trying to understand what you meant when you say it wasn't "rape rape".

Did you mean it wasn't "real rape"?

What wasn't "real" enough about the crime for you, Whoopi?

A 43 year old man forced his penis into a 13 year-old child's vagina - and then he forced his penis into her anus. How is this "rape", but not "rape rape"?

The victim was not only a child, she was also intoxicated because Polanski gave her booze and drugs before the crime. The child protested - told him to stop - but he continued. She was incapacitated to a point where she could barely walk, much less defend herself against her 43 year-old attacker. Is that enough for "rape rape", Whoopi?

What would have done it for you? If he'd used a knife - or jumped on her in a dark alley instead of a bed? If it had happened at a homeless shelter instead of the mansion of a famous Hollywood actor? If he'd had to remove a trench coat before committing the crime, rather than silk underwear from a fancy shop on Rodeo Drive?

What if the victim had been a little black girl from a triple decker in the poorest part of Los Angeles? Would that have been "rape rape", Whoopi? Or would you have still offered the same lame excuse you came up with on The View - that "people in other countries see things differently" when middle-aged men force themselves on children.

If it's true that 13 year-old kids in France are so disrespected they can anticipate being attacked by men - you can and should condemn the practice - not chalk it up to a "cultural difference" - as if to suggest that the United States might evolve one day to a period of enlightenment when we will be "liberated" enough to celebrate the sexual abuse of children.

Your audience is filed with women who need and deserve the empowerment potential in a show like yours. Cultural values are created, in part, through the dissemination of ideas. You had a chance to explain to millions of people why the personal autonomy, bodily integrity and liberty of all women and children is at stake when even one rapist is not held accountable for his actions. At a minimum, you could have explained how backward we really are in this country - and how the epidemic of rape and child sex abuse serves as a kind of domestic terrorism that interferes with the freedom of millions of people who are affected by the disproportionate failure of our legal system to redress sexual violence. According to a study submitted to Congress in support of the Violence Against Women Act in the 1990s, by then Senator Joseph Biden, only 2% of rapists spend even one day behind bars. Violence against women and children is grossly underreported and underprosecuted, and the data consistently shows that crimes against property are punished much more harshly than crimes against female bodies.

Rather than highlight this profound and pervasive injustice, you bemoaned the fact that Mr. Polanski was compelled to flee the United States after pleading guilty to child rape because he was about to go to jail for "a hundred years".

Many people would argue he deserved such a sentence, and under California law today, but not back then, drugging and raping a child would expose Mr. Polanski to a mandatory minimum term of 25 years. But because he was allowed to plead guilty to only one of six felonies with which he was originally charged - he faced no more than four years behind bars, and some reports say the judge intended to impose a sentence of only a few weeks of incarceration.

Mr. Polanski arrogantly decided that he shouldn't spend any time in jail, and he fled this country spinelessly for a nation he knew would not extradite him for his crime. If it's true, as has been reported, that he took off because he thought it was unfair that he should go to jail after his lawyer worked out a "no jail" deal with the prosecutor, he had a right to withdraw his guilty plea and go to TRIAL - not PARIS.

That Mr. Polanski would show such disrespect for this country's legal system is a reason to punish him MORE, not less, for his crime. It may be a decades-old case, but it bears stating the obvious that the law should not reward fugitives for their successful efforts to evade justice.

Nonetheless, Mr. Polanski is a man of wealth and power, and kids don't vote or have any money. Which is why people like you are so quick to say things that degrade children. Admit it Whoopi, you'd be talking out of the other side of your mouth if filmmaker Polanski were garbageman Polanski.

Next time, try reading the Constitution BEFORE speaking on this topic. There's nothing in there that says people of influence should not be held accountable for their crimes. In fact, try focusing on the 14th Amendment for a few minutes - especially the part about how all citizens are entitled to "equal protection" of the laws. Then try reading some of our most basic court decisions that discuss how the law is supposed to protect the weak, and deter the cunning.

You have a 13 year-old granddaughter, Whoopi. What does she call you? "Nana"? "Grandma"? What if she told you that she had been "raped" by a 45 year-old man who stripped her naked and then penetrated her private parts even as she cried "no". Would you correct her for using the word "rape"? Would you say, "sorry sweetheart - what happened to you was not a 'rape rape'".

No matter how hard some people try to make the crime seem harmless and full of gray areas - - it really is quite simple if you think about it the way someone famous once did: "rape is to sex what a punch in the mouth is to a kiss". Not all punches knock teeth out - but nobody ever says "it wasn't a 'punch punch'".

I will say one thing, Whoopi - in your defense. Maybe we SHOULD give up the term "rape" altogether, and start calling it "bodily enslavement". We could put it in the Constitution as a civil rights crime, rather than in the lowly statute books alongside shoplifting.

I'm thinking if we had initially codified the offense in law where it truly belongs - under the umbrella of fundamental liberty - you might have stopped yourself before saying "it wasn't a violation of civil rights civil rights".

Can you see how dumb that sounds, Whoopi?

I hope so - because you are an important voice for women and children and I want you to sound smart.

Yours truly,

Wendy Murphy

New England Law|Boston

POSTED BY WENDY MURPHY AT 8:59 PM

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] Battered Mothers Rights - A Human Rights Issue.

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Just When You Think You’re Out, They Pull You Back In…

September 29, 2009 in Child Custody Issues, Child Custody for fathers, Children's Rights, Family Courts, activism, child abuse, domestic violence | Tags: aaron krzewinski,abused, abused children, abusers, abusive men, bad fathers, battered women,batterers, Carrie Silbernagel-Burke, corruption, court whores, CPS, custody, domestic abuse, domestic violence, Ed Burke, family court, family court corruption, father rights,frank m. calvert, government corruption, judge david miron, judge richard delforge,Judges, killer fathers, marinette county, maternal deprivation, misogynists, mother,mother rights, mothers, oconto county, parental alienation, pedophiles, protective parent, Rape, restraining orders, sexual abuse, stalkers, stupid men, Title IV Grants,violence against women, women haters

Do you spend time with your family? Good. Because a man that doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man. Don Corleone

FAMILY COURT A.K.A. ORGANIZED CRIME IS ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD.

CHILDREN AND MOTHERS ARE VICTIMIZED EVERYDAY BY THE “GOODFELLAS” THAT RUN IT.

LET’S BREAK DOWN ALL THE CRIMINALS THAT BELIEVE THAT THE BEST INTERESTS FOR CHILDREN IS TAKING THEM AWAY FROM THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER, USUALLY THE MOTHER, AND PLACING THEM IN THAT HANDS OF ABUSERS, USUALLY FATHERS.

THE FLAWED FAMILY COURT SYSTEM STARTS OUT WITH A JUDGE OR “GODFATHER” WHO TAKES HIS CUES FROM HIS CONSIGLIERE OR GUARDIAN AD LITEM. EVEN THOUGH THE GODFATHER ULTIMATELY MAKES THE DECISIONS HE RELIES HEAVILY ON WHAT HE SAYS.

THE UNDERBOSS OR FAMILY COURT COMMISSIONER IS USUALLY THE ONE WHO CARRIES OUT THE ACTIONS OF THE GODFATHER AND CONSIGLIERE, ALTHOUGH HE’S NOT A REAL “JUDGE” HE’S APPOINTED BY HIS GODFATHER.

NOW IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE “CRIME FAMILY” THEY NEED THE HELP OF THE “CAPOS” WHO ARE LAWYERS, PSYCHOLOGISTS, MEDIATORS AND ANY OTHER COURT WHORE WHO TAKES MONEY IN EXCHANGE FOR LOOKING OUT FOR THE “BEST INTERESTS” OF YOUR CHILD(REN), THE ONES THAT MAKE YOU AN OFFER YOU CAN’T REFUSE.

THESE CAPOS ARE IN CHARGE OF THE “SOLDIERS” WHO CARRY OUT ORDERS THAT COME DOWN DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM “THE GODFATHER”.

IN A SMALL COUNTY IN WISCONSIN THERE IS SUCH A SET UP OF MAFIOSOS THAT PILFER AND PILLAGE GOOD PARENTS BY TAKING THEIR MONEY, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY THEIR CHILDREN.

THIS ORGANIZATION IS KNOWN AS OCONTO COUNTY FAMILY COURT WHICH IS AIDED AND ABETTED BY ANOTHER CRIME FAMILY, MARINETTE COUNTY FAMILY COURT.

THE GODFATHERS, EITHER JUDGE RICHARD DELFORGE OR JUDGE DAVID MIRON AND THEIR UNDERBOSSES, FCC FRANK M. CALVERT AND FRANCIS BOYLE DO EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THE PROTECTIVE PARENT (MOTHER) PAYS DEARLY, MOSTLY IN MONEY BUT ESPECIALLY IN FEAR.

THEY INTIMIDATE, THREATEN AND EVEN GO AS FAR AS RIPPING LOVING PARENTS AWAY FROM CHILDREN WHO BEG NOT TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE ABUSER (THE FATHER).

THIS CRIME FAMILY HAS ONE OBJECTIVE AND THAT IS TO MAKE MORE MONEY FOR ALL OF THEIR FRIENDS. THE POPULAR CONSIGLIERE AND “GOLDEN BOY” OF GUARDIAN AD LITEMS, AARON KRZEWINSKI, IS ALMOST ALWAYS HANDPICKED BY HIS UNDERBOSS AND/OR GODFATHER. HE’S THE ONE THAT SMILES TO YOUR FACE, ACTS INDIFFERENT AND NEVER DOES HIS JOB. EVEN WHEN HIS JOB DETAILS THAT HE MUST MAKE SURE THERE IS NO HISTORY OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND WITH A LAW ENACTED ENTAILING,

“a rebuttable presumption against awarding a parent joint or sole legal custody if the court finds that the parent has engaged in a pattern or serious incident of abuse.”

click here for a .pdf file of Act 130

he apparently doesn’t make use of the Wisconsin Circuit Court Access as a tool to actually DO his job, which would provide him with details of patterns of abuse, but that matters not to the Consigliere, he wants to keep the Godfather and Underboss happy because those are the men that send business his way.

But at the end of the day when all the Mafiosos gather to play poker, drink beer above lawyer/ wannabe Godfather, Ed Burkes’ law office and think of new ways to keep them all rich and in jobs, including his child protection worker wife, they don’t realize the ramifications of all of their actions collectively as a organized crime organization.

What all the crime families/Family Courts don’t know or realize is that a lot of intelligent, strong and persistent Mothers are not going to let them get away with their crimes any longer. The truth is out and the line in the sand is drawn…because I’m not going to shut up, give up or go away!

WORD TO THE WISEGUYS….THE RICO ACT ISN’T JUST FOR LA COSA NOSTRA ANYMORE!

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] Whos Killing Families?.

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http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_webcustody29.f8faba.html

Custody battle becomes shooting

07:20 AM PDT on Tuesday, September 29, 2009

An infant custody dispute turned bloody when a man shot his girlfriend's father and brother at a home in Valinda, then fled from pursuing deputies, stormed into a second home and shot himself in the head, authorities said today.

Three people were hospitalized today with gunshot wounds, including the alleged gunman, who was listed in serious condition, said Lt. Pete Cacheiro, a watch commander at the Los Angeles County sheriff's Industry station.

The shootings were first reported as "a man with a gun call" at 6:46 p.m. Monday in the 16200 block of Benwick Street in Valinda, between West Covina and Industry, Cacheiro said.

Bryan Ornelas, 21, of Chino was arguing with his girlfriend, Stephanie Rizo, 20, about visitation rights regarding their 3-month-old infant, when Ornelas pulled a handgun and shot Rizo's 40-year-old father and her 16-year-old brother, both in their left arms, Cacheiro said.

As a sheriff's helicopter hovered overhead, deputies in patrol cars arrived moments later as a black Dodge Charger sped away on Benwick, Cacheiro said.

The deputies pursued the Dodge a half-mile to the 1600 block of Mullender Avenue, where Ornelas got out of the Dodge and ran into a home, Cacheiro said.

Owners of the home then rushed outside. Deputies went in and found the man suffering from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, a handgun nearby, Cacheiro said.

Ornelas was taken to a hospital and listed in serious condition early today, Cacheiro said.

Rizo's father and teen-aged brother were hospitalized and considered stable, Cacheiro said. Rizo and the baby were not injured.

--City News Service

Technorati Tags: father,self,Custody,September,infant,Valinda,authorities,Three,gunshot,Pete,Cacheiro,commander,Angeles,Industry,Benwick,Street,West,Covina,Bryan,Ornelas,Chino,Stephanie,Rizo,rights,handgun,helicopter,Dodge,Charger,Mullender,Avenue,Deputies,hospital,News,Service,moments,Owners,visitation,month,brother,girlfriend,sheriff

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] I will not SHUT UP , GIVE UP and I WONT go away!!.

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http://cjonline.com/news/state/2009-09-29/topeka_optimist_named_to_board

A known Judge who severs contact between battered mothers and their children, while REWARDING the BATTERER gets another appointment.. how many kids did you kill for this Judge Bruns?? (a Topeka Optimist good fucking god!)

Topeka Optimist named to board

September 29, 2009 - 1:01pm

ST. LOUIS, Mo. - David Bruns, a District Court Judge for Kansas and founder of the Topeka-Shawnee County Youth Court, has been elected to the Board of Directors of Optimist International.

His three-year term begins Thursday.

For more than 25 years, Bruns has been involved with Optimist International, an organization that aims to "bring out the best in kids" by conducting positive service projects that reach more than six million young people each year. He was elected to the organization's board of directors by delegates at the 2009 Optimist International Convention in Kissimmee, Fla.

In addition to many years of service to children in Topeka, Bruns has been active at all levels of the international organization since first joining the White Lakes Optimist Club of Topeka in 1983. Bruns was the White Lakes Club's secretary/treasurer in 1987-1988 and followed that with a year as president in 1988-1989.

While Bruns was president, his club was recognized at the international level for its accomplishments. Bruns moved up to the district level in 1991-1992 as a lieutenant governor and was governor in 1997-1998, when the Kansas District received the highest honors possible for its progress.

For the international organization, Bruns served as an international vice president in 2004-2005. From 2006 to 2008, he served as chairman of the committee that oversees Junior Optimist Octagon International (JOOI), the organization's youth component.

He also just completed a year as chairman of a committee that focuses on membership growth and retention. Bruns has served on international committees for governance and activities as well as a convention committee when the organization's convention took place in Kansas City in 2003. He continues to lead volunteers in workshops at the convention each year as well.

Note: Cross posted from [wp angelfury] Mothers Justice- Initiative Project.

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Children need. . . THIS?
THE FATHERS RIGHTS MOVEMENT: IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Page 2

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/site-index/site-index-frame.html#soulhttp://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/

" ...proof in itself why the rest of us NEED GUNS!

"We need them to KILL people who want to MOVE our money into the pockets of the criminals (like her) who want to take our money to foster her immoral ideas of how a society should be.

"Let's make no mistake about why assholes like her want to see our guns taken away."

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:33:48 -0700 From: Gary Clark <Gary@words-that-work.org> To: Fathers Manifesto <manifesto@iname.com> Cc: liz <liz@gate.net>, Fathers' Manifesto <fathers@web.liberty.com>, Mark Hall <markhall@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: SMH

GARY CLARK
WORDS THAT WORK PUBLICATIONS, INC.
http://www.words-that-work.org/wtw02.htm
gary@words-that-work.org
wtwpubs@ix.netcom.com
Las Vegas, NV

". . . concerning the jailing of Christopher Robin, founder of the Purple Heart House in Hollywood, California. . . I have discovered the home address of the judge.  If you would, send a second copy of your letter to his home.  I want this man to know that we are paying attention to what he is doing, and that we intend to break through the barrier of anonymity that so many of these bureaucrats operate behind with impunity.

"We had originally planned to burn just our support orders.  But now, the first thing to burn will be a miniature effigy of Judge Schoenberg.  We hope he gets the message.  We're watching, we're paying attention, and we're ready to fight back."

Threat of Jaks forwarded from ANCPR's listserve by GREG DeBACKER (NCFC) to the men-law listserve owned and operated by Chicago attorney STEVEN D. IMPARL.

Received: (qmail 25567 invoked by uid 505); 24 Oct 1998 02:36:28 -0000 Mailing-List: contact men-law-owner@egroups.com Precedence: list X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/men-law/ X-Mailing-List: men-law@egroups.com Delivered-To: listsaver-findlist-men-law@makelist.com Received: (qmail 7472 invoked by uid 7770); 24 Oct 1998 02:04:38 -0000 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.8) by vault.findmail.com with SMTP; 24 Oct 1998 02:04:38 -0000 Received: from DeBackerG@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id XVTCa29185 for <men-law@makelist.com>; Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:03:39 +2000 (EDT) From: DeBackerG@aol.com Message-ID: <3c89259b.3631357b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:03:39 EDT To: men-law@makelist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Subject: [men-law] Fwd: ancpr post, Chris Robin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-UIDL: 60fb809fa1f64c64dcefb62d0ac5a594

LOWELL JAKS
kidnapper and founder of ANCPR
ALLIANCE FOR NON-CUSTODIAL PARENTS RIGHTS
http://www.ancpr.org/
9903 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 267
Beverly Hills, CA 90212

READ HIS READERSHIP COMMENT ON A JUDGE WHO WAS
GUNNED DOWN BY AN ENRAGED MAN WHO KILLED HIS WIFE

PAIDIKA: Is choosing paedophilia for you a responsible choice for the individual?

"Certainly it is responsible... Paedophiles can boldly and courageously affirm what they choose. They can say that what they want is to find the best way to love. I am also a theologian, and as a theologian, I believe it is God's will that there be closeness and intimacy, unity of the flesh, between people. A paedophile can say: "This closeness is possible for me within the choices that I've made."

"Paedophiles are too defensive.... With boldness they can say, 'I believe this is in fact part of God's will.'

PAIDIKA: You are speaking mostly about paedophiles in the U.S. What tack should they take given the societal attitudes? What solutions do you envision for their lives?

"The solution I'm suggesting is that paedophiles become much more positive. They should directly attack the concept, the image, the picture of the paedophile as an evil, wicked, and reprehensible exploiter of children...

"I was in the courtroom for the case that Holly just cited and I actually heard the prosecutor say, 'No man should ever be permitted to claim as an excuse that he was just being affectionate when a child says they were uncomfortable.'

"I don't know; I don't think, we can just label these attitudes 'hysteria.' Perhaps 'madness' is better, or 'pathology.' What we see going on in the United States is the most vitriolic and virulent anti-sexuality I know of in our history."

RALPH CHARLES UNDERWAGER, Ph.D
Read the whole interview in:
PAIDIKA: The Journal of Paedophilia
Vol. 3, No. 1, Issue 9, Winter 1993, Netherlands
MORE -- from the courts of Minnesota...

"Just how the shit would YOU know?  Were you raped as a child? ... You are one clueless bimbo...

"BTW, are your panteis in a bunch about the "Seinfeld Case" in Milwaukee?  Bet you'll walk bowllegged for a year on that one.  $26.6 MILLION Miller will have to pay out, and the broad another $1.5 MILLION for being a bitch! HA HA!  We FRstersd are coming to get you HA HA!

"... there are TWO lying broads to every one who tells the truth!  Just all in how you want to look at the stats.  I really lopve it whjen Femiwhackos like you MAKE UP statistics! I love craming them right up your ass!  The biggest nightmare you have is when I ACCEPT your fabricated stats!

"BULLSHIT!  You sure can turn a phrase Liz."

Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:19:40 -0400 (EDT) From: PangK@aol.com To: liz@gate.net Cc: DeanTong@aol.com Subject: Re: Questions About Divorce & Custody Nobody Asks

KEN PANGBORN
"THE A-TEAM"
http://www.a-team.org/
With DEAN TONG / "F.R.O.N.T." and "Abuse-Excuse"
Signer, FATHER'S MANIFESTO--
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
NCFC vs ACFC and continuing FR in-fighting...

Mug shot of Dean Tong, former allegedly falsely accused "forensic consultant", and PAS (parental alienation excuse) and therapeutic jurisprudence promoter, who after being accused in his own divorce case, started a business to help defend men accused of child sex abuse, domestic violence, and other charges, including as a freelance assistant to their lawyers.

http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=08006061
Mr. Tong apparently was accused again of stuff (this time domestic violence and witness tampering) on January 28, 2008 per Hillsborough County, Florida sheriff's website at http://www.hcso.tampa.fl.us/pub/default.asp?/Online/qdisp/bn=08006061

Self-styled false abuse expert arrested
The man is charged with domestic violence by the Sheriff's Office after his wife calls 911.
By S.I. ROSENBAUM, Times Staff Writer
Published January 30, 2008

TAMPA - A Riverview man who has built a career as an expert on "false child abuse accusations" has been charged with domestic violence and tampering with a witness to avoid prosecution.

Dean Bryan Tong, 51, of 10246 Hunter's Haven Blvd., was accused of grabbing his wife's arm and slamming her foot in the bedroom door during an argument on Jan. 21, according to an arrest affidavit filed by sheriff's deputies.

He then allegedly took her telephone as she tried to call 911 and told her he would "ruin her" if she called police, the affidavit states...

On his Web site, www.abuse-excuse.com, Tong writes that he was accused of sexually abusing his then-preschool-age daughter during a contentious divorce; the charges were later dropped, he writes.

"Having seen the seedy underbelly of divorce law, Dean Tong decided to work to reform the system that tore his life apart," the Web site says.

LIZNOTE: Dean Tong was not originally included on the Pig Page when it first was published in 1998 because he managed consistently to comport himself politely in his emails and other communications with liz. However, this latest event, coupled with his performance in August 14, 2006, on Lisa Macci's Justice Hour radio show has put him over the top. Congratulations, Dean -- it took more than a decade but you've finally achieved your place on a shelf in the liz library..

DEAN TONG
ABUSE - EXCUSE
http://www.abuse-excuse.com

[Wearing his Father's Manifesto poloshirt.]

"Very eloquently and succinctly stated, Gary!  "There is no reason to dance around the issue. We are dealing with a slut who must be treated like and called a slut.  The word 'slut' has a very important meaning, and it was developed to describe people just like Liz."

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:04:34 +0600 From: Fathers Manifesto <manifesto@iname.com> To: Gary Clark <Gary@words-that-work.org> Cc: liz <liz@gate.net>, Fathers' Manifesto <fathers@web.liberty.com>, Mark Hall <markhall@rocketmail.com> Subject: SMH

"... it is the act of adultery which led to the psychological problems which brought the majority ... of those criminals to death row in the first place... this would put about 10.5 million American wives on death row.  Everything is feminists' fault."

Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 03:05:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Fathers' Manifesto <fathers@web.liberty.com> To: Asherah <Asherah@aol.com> Cc: wellgo1@ix.netcom.com, spg@postal.c-zone.net, liz@gate.net Subject: Re: common thread

"It is time to update our data base regarding the state of the 19th Amendment... the last survey... onwomen's suffrage resulted in 80% of us advocating (in confidentiality) the repeal of this Amendment. This survey also will be held in confidence, so feel free to "vote your heart..."http://fathers.zq.com/home3.htm

"The Talmud played a key role in the destruction of America's families."

"The appointment of Jewish judges contributed greatly to our current social pathologies."

The above two statements from John Knight's "Talmud Survey" originally published at: http://apps3.vantagenet.com/zsv/survey.asp?id=1210141755&GO=Go%21

JOHN KNIGHT
aka DANIEL AMNEUS, Ph.D.
aka MARK HALL aka ART BOOKS
Author of The Garbage Generation
Author of THE FATHERS MANIFESTO --
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE

"family sex."

" The VAWA and VAWA II are blatant violations of the 14th Amendment..."
"We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape... we called it exciting."

"...millions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, andgenitally caressing their children, when that is really part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves."

as quoted in December 1977 Penthouse article, "Incest: The Last Taboo," by Philip Nobile

WARREN FARRELL, Ph.D.
Author of The Liberated Man and Myth of Male Power
Advisor to F.R.E.E. "FATHERS RIGHTS AND EQUALITY EXCHANGE"
Board of Directors, "NCFC" NATIONAL CONGRESS FOR FATHERS AND CHILDREN
Board of Directors "CRC" CHILDREN'S RIGHTS COUNCIL
Ideological icon of AFC aka ACFC (Stu Miller et al. father's rights lobbyists)
Against the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA)

"The New Jersey Supreme Court executed a father because he wanted to accept his parental responsibilities... Alan Gubernat shot himself and his three-year-old son...

"Feminist women have almost completely destroyed the family and all associated with it that is holy.

"The Bible clearly states that the fathers are to be the head of the household.

"This is not to mention the Magna Carte, upon which all of our constitutions and institutions are founded. But the government, with its judicial henchmen, have propagated upon society a system that is diametrically opposed to the Word of God...

"It is interesting to note, not only the outrageousness of the NJ decision, but the gradual "move forward" in the judiciary's attitudes, whereby women are no longer disgraced by bearing children outside of wedlock, men are. Men are also vilified by the Pimp and the Vice-Pimp of the United States. No longer are men warned not to fall victim to the wiles of "loose women."...

"...did a penis just fall out of the sky and impregnate you..."

Ranting on F.R.E.E.'s bit-listserve after unwed noncustodial father, Alan Gubernat, murdered his 3 year old son for the reason that the New Jersey Supreme Court would not let him change the boy's last name. More...

Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 20:18:51 -0400 From: Stuart Miller <smiller@CapAccess.org> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.free-l

STUART MILLER
AFC (Father's Rights groups lobbyist)
http://www.erols.com/afc/about.html
Signer (among other AFC members), THE "FATHER'S MANIFESTO" --
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
ACFC "AMERICAN COALITION OF FATHERS AND CHILDREN"
AFA "AMERICAN FATHERS ALLIANCE"
Men's Rights Lobbyists ANTI- welfare, -child support, -VAWA, -mothers

"If you go to jail, we will kick their butt so hard that they will be sorry ever messed with you!!!  Our advice to you Stuart?  Please accept their "sentence" and go to jail!  You will immediately be considered a political prisoner, and we will file a claim with the United Nations on behalf of all fathers in America...

"Stu, you got our words that we will publicize the heck out of this. "

Brouhaha on F.R.E.E.'s bit-listserve after Stuart Miller wrote that the judge in his divorce case was threatening to throw him in jail for contempt of court. More...

Subject: Put Stu in Jail and We Kick Your Butt From: fgj@ELECTRICITI.COM Date: 1995/06/03 Message-Id: <m0sHxIK-000H6hC@powergrid.electriciti.com> Sender: "Fathers' Rights and Equality Exchange"

SHARAD SHARIF
Signer, THE "FATHER'S MANIFESTO" --
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
Founder, FAMILY GUARDIAN NETWORK
FAMILY GUARDIAN JOURNAL
San Diego, CA

"Would you have the name of that judge handy?  And perhaps a residence?  Or a phone number?  A little education is in order.  RB"

Bigshottism or a veiled threat to a judge on F.R.E.E.'s bit-listserve after Stuart Miller wrote that the judge in his divorce case was threatening to throw him in jail for contempt of court. More...

Subject: Re: Stu in Jail? From: richard@bennett.com (Richard Bennett) Date: 1995/06/11 Message-Id: <3rdj4u$dl0@news1.best.com> References: Pine.3.07.9506031259.A19711-A100000@cap1.capaccess.org>

"Governor Wilson signed SB 509 into law late last night... The femaroids fought this measure tooth and nail, resorting to dirty tricks at every step of the process... But this year we drew the line on domestic violence legislation by killing a bill granting custody to victims automatically, we ended welfare as we used to know it, and we ended lifetime alimony... "

Subj: The End of Idleness Date: Tue, Oct 1, 1996 4:31 PM EDT From: TALK-MAN@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU X-From: Richard@BENNETT.COM

^{RICHARD BENNETT}
aka EarthMom13@aol.com
aka JillSavage@aol.com
Original Signer #147, THE FATHER'S MANIFESTO
COPS "COALITION OF PARENT SUPPORT"
A FATHER'S RIGHTS LOBBYING GROUP that poses as "MODERATE"
Affiliated with NCFC "NATIONAL CONGRESS FOR FATHERS AND CHILDREN"
Also now affiliated with  ACFC "AMERICAN COALITION OF FATHERS AND CHILDREN"
Cupertino, CA

''What I am against is the excessively moralistic and punitive reaction that many members of our society have toward pedophiles ... (going) far beyond what I consider to be the gravity of the crime.''

"...there is a bit of pedophilia in every one of us."

Sex Abuse Hysteria: Salem Witch Trials Revisited Creskill, NJ, Creative Therapeutics, 1991. p. 118.

RICHARD A. GARDNER, M.D.
Popularized "PAS" PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME,
a "diagnosis" generally applied to mothers who accuse fathers
CREATIVE THERAPEUTICS
Cresskill, NJ

"There is every reason for men to feel threatened... if only a few "top-quality" males... remain in the gene pool due to the reproductive choices of women, regular guys do not get to perpetuate themselves into the next generation....

"Advocacy of lesbian childrearing practices and single motherhood as a desirable life-style choice undermines fatherhood. ...

"Government is usurping the role of fathers/husbands... providing low/no-income women a financial security blanket, while forcing men to pay for it without receiving the benefit of the a wife's company and services in return, a necessary element in the traditional marriage contract...

"As to "lack of men to fill the role" this is also in part a function of mate-selection and family formation behavior on the part of women. This is virtually never mentioned in the literature and in the public debate.

"The loosening of constraints on the sexual and reproductive behavior of women is in part responsible for paternal "irresponsibility". Secondly, the rejection of monogamy by women combined with no-fault divorce...

"Specifically, husbands no longer enjoy an assurance of a monogomous sexual relationship with the wife... not even a right to be informed of an abortion, much less a veto...

"The husband's claim on the wife's love is no longer recognized at all. Worse, it has been criminalized and is now known as "marital rape".

"Even a mere effort to maintain the nonsexual aspects of consortium can now land a man in jail for violation of a restraining or protective order, on charges of harassment, or for committing the new crime de jour, stalking.

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:05:32 -0600 From: Wolfgang Hirczy <wolfh@osuunx.ucc.okstate.edu> Reply to: familylaw-l@lawlib.wuacc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list <familylaw-l@lawlib.wuacc.edu> Subject: If only things were different ....

WOLFGANG HIRCZY De MINO, Ph.D
aka "ADAM NEVE"

"Feminists should be charged with nothing less than Crimes Against Humanity, sentenced, and summarily executed in public squares."

NICK SZABO
SIGNER, FATHER'S MANIFESTO--
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
enclosed@mo.net
St. Louis, MO
ABOUT THE "CASE FOR FATHER CUSTODY"

" [if women could marry women] ... six income sources ... from the two mothers, two sets of government entitlements, and two banished fathers ... would be economically far superior ... We must fight lesbian rights ..."

A Winning Strategy For Fathers, by David R. Usher http://www.acfc.org/essay/winning.htm

"On the marriage market, men trade their social needs and women trade their economic needs.  Every ... child support order weakens the marriage market ..."

The National Playboy Boycott Page - Will Republicans change? by David R. Usher http://www.backlash.com/1996/6-jun96/ncfc06.html

"Dear John ... why not E-mail the whole thing to all Congressmen and Senators on the Net, with a foreward by you as the organizer.  I think they should get the buzz from people, not the entitled feminist organizations ... just ask Stuart Miller or Hugh Harrington about this ...

"If I do a good job creaming the feminists, and they can see it, maybe they will have the political guts to do something more than flush the toilet."

From usher@mo.netMon Sep 25 14:37:57 1995 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 02:28:33 -0500 From: Dave Usher To: fathers Subject: Debate purpose

DAVID R. USHER
usher@mo.net
Signer, THE "FATHER'S MANIFESTO" --
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
ACFC "AMERICAN COALITION OF FATHERS AND CHILDREN"
until recently: Board of Advisors, NCFC "NATIONAL CONGRESS FOR FATHERS AND CHILDREN"

"What the radical Womens Rights (sometimes referred to as Mothers Rights but since the influx of lesbian leadership has been more likely to be referred to as Rights for Women, Women of Color, and Gay and Bi-Sexual Women) and the Radical mens groups (who sometimes also call themselves fathers groups) have in common is dislike of the idea of human rights."

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:33:34 -0600 From: Dean Hughson <dean@primenet.com> Reply-To: familylaw-l@lawlib.wuacc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list <familylaw-l@lawlib.wuacc.edu> Subject: Re: Observance of Herstory Month

"You know you are an insider in the fathers movement when... your closest online friends have been accused in a court battle of child abuse as a ploy by their ex's to win custody."

Subject: Top 10 Reasons You Know You are an insider in the Fathers Movement From: Dean Hughson <dean@PRIMENET.COM> Date: 1995/12/04 Message-Id: <199512050529.WAA10416@usr1.primenet.com> Sender: "Fathers' Rights and Equality Exchange" <FREE-L@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU> X-Sender: dean@mailhost.primenet.com Comments: To: shedevil@vix.com, wellman@vix.com Newsgroups: bit.listserv.free-L

"My wife and I sat watching the TV and could only think......why do these people attack the legal system? When it puts men in jail for not paying child support or for false allegations, those same people cheer the actions of the court. The hatred towards men in general and fathers,such as OJ Simpson,specifically sickens me."

From owner-witchhnt@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Tue Oct 3 19:32 EDT 1995 Return-Path: <owner-witchhnt@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> Posted-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:32:21 -0400 Received-Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:32:21 -0400 ...From: Dean Hughson <dean@primenet.com> Subject: What I've Learned About Justice via OJ To: FREE <FREE-L%indycms.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu>, Multiple recipients of list WITCHHNT...

"Radical feminist... Liz... and her alleged husban Nick have posted pictures and quotes from some men,including Ralph Underwager and myself on her attack web site at http://www.thelizlibrary.org/fathers/fathers.htm "Thought that some of you might find it interesting to see the pictures. incidentally I stand by my post."

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:52:58 -0700 Reply-To: Dean Hughson <dean@PRIMENET.COM> Sender: Is there a child sex abuse witchhunt? <WITCHHNT@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> From: Dean Hughson <dean@PRIMENET.COM> Subject: pictures To: WITCHHNT@MITVMA.MIT.EDU X-UIDL: 81b7412e8726f1047ec191867a20b121

DEAN HUGHSON
Self-proclaimed "Eggman" and "Internet Divorce Expert"
Author of http://divorcesupport.com's "Ask the Divorced Guy"
BACKLASH! columnist (as is Stu Miller, John Knight, Armin Brott, Ken Pangborn...)
[as of 1998] "Director of Resource Management," Father's Rights and Equality Exchange

"And for the next two cents, per the below post, good Femnazi bitch Asyerass[Trish Wilson], I too say "ditto" and stay the hell out of where you're NOT INVITED, NOR WELCOME!! ... up yours BITCH!!!!!!!!!!

"...'fathers die at the hands of the Divorce Industry and the anti-christ/gender genocidal feminists... "KISS MY PURPLE BUTT" (OR KISS MY PURPLE ASHerah).' "

Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 18:32:45 -0500 From: proadvocate@earthlink.net To: Asherah@aol.com Cc: ncpd@rogers.wave.ca Subject: agendas, etc., up yours!

"[Sex offenders] ... could serve a USEFUL purpose to society also, by being ordered, and they would probably happily comply, to go out and rape and pillage all the damn man hating Feminaz's!!!!!!!!!!"

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:42:24 -0600 From: proadvocate@earthlink.net To: men-law@egroups.com Subject: [men-law] Re: Gulag in MINNESOTA

GEORGE GILLILAND
the "proadvocate" http://home.earthlink.net/~proadvocate
Operator of a "BATTERED MEN'S SHELTER"
"Men's & Father's Rights!!" DOMESTIC RIGHTS COALITION
St. Paul, MN

"Her world is her husband, her family, her children, and home.  We do not find it right when a women presses into the world of men.  Rather we find it natural when these two worlds remain separate ... Woman and man represent two different types of being.  Reason is dominant in man."

Mein Kampf
Adolph Hitler

"Shut the hell up you tired old hag... your fellow females are killing their kids for the same reason you lie thru your teeth, YOUR WORTHLESS, YOUR SPOILED, YOUR DECADENT, YOUR LAZY, ...YOUR.

"FEMALE CHAUVINIST PIGS!!!!!!!!!  KID KILLERS BOTH FETUS AND GROWN CHILD WHORES, LESBIAN AND HETEROSEXUAL

"It's no wonder women are the brutes and kid killers they are today, look where they came from, rotten, filthy, scumball feminists like you!

"Earl!!!!!! "

Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:44:45 -0500 (CDT) From: wellgo1@ix.netcom.com To: manifesto@pemail.net, manifesto@home.net, liz@gate.net, john@usa.net, fathersmanifesto@usa.net, fathers@web.liberty.com, damneus@calstatela.edu Cc: spg@c-zone.net Subject: Re: Another intact home?

EARL WELLWOOD
SIGNER, FATHER'S MANIFESTO http://www2.crosswinds.net/san-diego/~manifesto/
THE POLITICAL PLATFORM TO REPEAL WOMEN'S RIGHT TO VOTE
COALITION OFCONCERNED PARENTS
SAN JOSE, CA

"True gender equality will exist when, and only when the verbal and psychological abuse women often inflict upon their husbands is regarded as EQUALLY SERIOUS as the physical abuse men inflict upon their wives."

From: wtwpubs@ix.netcom.com (Gary Clark) Newsgroups: alt.mens-rights,alt.feminism,soc.men Subject: Re: Men's Movement Date: 28 Apr 1995 03:03:15 GMT

"If the slut feminists really want EQUALITY, I suggest DEATH IN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR to be the very first area in which such equality is achieved.  Once we've done that, I might be willing to listen to another one of their idiotic "equality" arguments."

Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 21:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Gary Clark <Gary@words-that-work.org> To: liz <liz@gate.net> Cc: Fathers Manifesto <fathers@web.liberty.com> Subject: Re: SMH

GARY CLARK

CONTINUED...

THESE ARE "MAINSTREAM" AKA "MODERATE" 
FATHER'S RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND LOBBYING GROUPS.